12
5
The Laver tables provide examples of programs which have not been shown to terminate in the standard axiomatic system of mathematics ZFC but which do terminate when one assumes very large cardinal axioms.
Introduction
The classical Laver tables An
are the unique finite algebras with underlying set {1,...,2n}
and an operation *
that satisfies the identity x * (y * z)=(x * y) * (x * z)
and where x*1=x+1
for x<2n
and where 2n*1=1
.
More information about the classical Laver tables can be found in the book Braids and Self-Distributivity by Patrick Dehornoy.
Challenge
What is the shortest code (in bytes) that calculates 1*32
in the classical Laver tables and terminates precisely when it finds an n
with 1*32<2n
? In other words, the program terminates if and only if it finds an n
with 1*32<2n
but otherwise it runs forever.
Motivation
A rank-into-rank cardinal (also called an I3-cardinal) is an extremely large level of infinity and if one assumes the existence of a rank-into-rank cardinal, then one is able to prove more theorems than if one does not assume the existence of a rank-into-rank cardinal. If there exists a rank-into-rank cardinal, then there is some classical Laver table An
where 1*32<2n
. However, there is no known proof that 1*32<2n
in ZFC. Furthermore, it is known that the least n
where 1*32<2n
is greater than Ack(9,Ack(8,Ack(8,254)))
(which is an extremely large number since the Ackermann function Ack
is a fast growing function). Therefore, any such program will last for an extremely long amount of time.
I want to see how short of a program can be written so that we do not know if the program terminates using the standard axiomatic system ZFC but where we do know that the program eventually terminates in a much stronger axiomatic system, namely ZFC+I3. This question was inspired by Scott Aaronson's recent post in which Aaronson and Adam Yedidia have constructed a Turing machine with under 8000 states such that ZFC cannot prove that the Turing machine does not terminate but is known not to terminate when one assumes large cardinal hypotheses.
How the classical Laver tables are computed
When computing Laver tables it is usually convenient to use the fact that in the algebra An
, we have 2n * x=x
for all x
in An
.
The following code calculates the classical Laver table An
# table(n,x,y) returns x*y in An table:=function(n,x,y) if x=2^n then return y; elif y=1 then return x+1; else return table(n,table(n,x,y-1),x+1); fi; end;
For example, the input table(4,1,2)
will return 12
.
The code for table(n,x,y)
is rather inefficient and it can only compute in the Laver table A4
in a reasonable amount of time. Fortunately, there are much faster algorithms for computing the classical Laver tables than the ones given above.
2Welcome to PPCG! Great post! – NoOneIsHere – 2016-05-09T02:56:59.150
1According to Wikipedia, Ack(9,Ack(8,Ack(8,254))) is a lower bound on n for which the period exceeds 16. For that, we can check 116 rather than 132. I will amend my program accordingly. – John Tromp – 2016-05-10T20:59:32.060
John Tromp. Thanks for pointing that out. I now realize that I made that typo and wrote 132<2^n instead of 116<2^n in the question . Nevertheless, the question still makes sense whether one uses 16 or 32 (or even 64), and an answer where one uses 32 would be just as theoretically interesting for me as an answer where one uses 16. – Joseph Van Name – 2016-05-11T06:02:13.260
Is this question inspired by http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=2741 ?
– None – 2016-05-11T09:48:12.570Lembik. Yes. The question was inspired by Scott Aaronson's blog post p=2725. – Joseph Van Name – 2016-05-11T16:59:51.763
1I've started writing up a Turing machine to do this, and I think I've spotted an out-by-factor-of-two error. Didn't Dougherty prove that
Ack(9,Ack(8,Ack(8,254)))
is a lower bound for the first table in which the first row has period 32, i.e. where1*16 < 2^n
? – Peter Taylor – 2016-05-26T22:36:32.650Peter Taylor. Yes. You are correct. I made a typo, and I should have written 116<2^n instead of 132<2^n. Such a Turing machine sounds very interesting. I conjecture that such a Turing machine will be about as easy to describe as a Turing machine for the Ackermann function, so I conjecture that one could use around 20-something states and two symbols to construct a Turing machine that terminates if and only if 1*32<2^n in the n-th classical Laver table for some n. – Joseph Van Name – 2016-05-27T21:44:01.437
@Peter Taylor. Also, is there known golfing language for Turing machines? If so, then a Turing machine could be compared with the answers given here already (and such a golfing language should be easy to describe). Let me know when you have constructed such a Turing machine. – Joseph Van Name – 2016-05-27T21:57:31.347
1
If you have a 20-state 2-symbol machine for Ackermann then please give me a link, because I can probably steal some ideas from it. I have 44 states to compute
– Peter Taylor – 2016-05-27T22:09:15.757table(n,x,y)
, and I think it'll take between 25 and 30 states to set up the constants and the outer loop. The only direct TM representation I can find on esolangs.org is http://esolangs.org/wiki/ScripTur and it's not really that golfy.At googology, a 23 state 2-symbol Turing machine that runs for longer than Graham's number steps before terminating has been constructed. In fact, there they have a 13 state Turing machine that exhibits Ackermann growth.
– Joseph Van Name – 2016-05-27T23:16:03.857Should I ask another question asking for a Turing machine that runs as long as 1*16=2^n but halts otherwise (I am new to this site) or are both questions too similar? – Joseph Van Name – 2016-05-27T23:21:40.123
Also, if anyone is interested, a Turing machine for computing the classical Laver tables can probably be slightly modified to a Turing machine that computes certain generalized Laver tables simply by adding more symbols to the Turing machine.
– Joseph Van Name – 2016-05-27T23:38:29.223If
A
is a set, then the underlying set of the generalized Laver table(A^(2^n))^+
is the set of non-empty strings over the alphabetA
of length at most2^n
and is given a unique self-distributive operation such thatx*y=y
whenever|x|=2^n
and wherey*a=ya
whenever|y|<2^n
and|a|=1
. In other words, the generalized Laver table(A^(2^n))^+
is like the classical Laver tableA_n
but where we work with non-empty strings of length less than2^n
instead of natural numbers at most2^n
. – Joseph Van Name – 2016-05-27T23:41:04.4731http://cheddarmonk.org/papers/laver.pdf is as much as I expect to get done this week, because I'm going to be travelling. – Peter Taylor – 2016-05-31T21:51:17.023